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 Clutch, any new experiences?
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Ondra_m
Garage Guru

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119 Posts

Posted - Apr 01 2004 :  00:27:09  Show Profile  Visit Ondra_m's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi

I have car with 3.4 Motronic engine and manual tranny.
And i have problem with clutch, now i have standard 735i E23.
When clutch is cold then work for 0.2Bar only. After few clutchburns then works for 0.4Bar.
When i setup more than 0.7 Bar clutch always slipping.

I read this forum and i found M5 E34 3.6 clutch works fine, but until standart boost about 0.5Bar. I need lot more :-)

I did look to the SACHS catalogue, and found only one, type for our engine (flywheel) its sintered metal. plate max torque 475Nm, but SACHS discontinued the production - my dealer not able to order it.
Sachs only offer presure plate

Please help me.

:-)

Afshin-Switzerland
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Posted - Apr 01 2004 :  01:15:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Ondra,

You've been forsure not following this:

http://bmwturbos.scottiesharpe.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1644

In its secound page Timo starts with good info on alternative clutchs for M106 with 5-Speed

Regards, Afshin.
1982 745i (5-Speed)



Edited by - Afshin-Switzerland on Apr 01 2004 03:42:04
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tihuovin
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Posted - Apr 01 2004 :  03:50:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Ondra!

Have a look of the topic Afshin told. There is lots of info about the issue.

I went through the very same Sachs catalog in order to find a solution and found out exactly the same info you did. I wanted to have some more torque too. Therefore I contacted lots of places and asked information, including clutch manufacturer's. Maybe one person do not have "critical mass", hence only one replied. Or actually two, but only one gave an answer, the other has not replied after the "we study this issue" message.

I ordered a clutch from SpecClutch (http://www.specclutch.com/specMain.html). I selected their SB153 clutch for my application (M106 + M535 tranny + original differential (2.93)). According the information, this clutch stand for 710Nm torque. We'll see about that when it arrives and I have the by-pass valve installed.

I will send (before the installation) the clutch disk, pressure plate and flywheel to be "tuned". The flywheel "clutch surface" will be refined so that MAXIMUM amount of the clutch disk pad's are touching the flywheel + pressure plate. Then those will be balanced together.

I will report to you when the job has been done, try to take some "before" and "after" pictures. To see what are those changes. I will also report how it works, drivability, how it feels and ESPECIALLY what it stands.

For me it seemed to be the best option, when I referred all the parameters, including the price. It got ABSOLUTELY best price/quality/torque ratio of those I compared (M5 clutch included).

Best Regards,
Timo
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Ondra_m
Garage Guru

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119 Posts

Posted - Apr 01 2004 :  08:09:21  Show Profile  Visit Ondra_m's Homepage  Reply with Quote
spec clutch didnt fit?
Why "tuned" ?
How much time for "tuning" do you expect?

Offer from specclutch looks like very very fine, but there is no real experience :-(

Im waiting for you, Tihuovin :-)


And... I didnt found, if specclutch is with or without springs.
I have single flywheel then i need clutch with springs...

:-)

Edited by - Ondra_m on Apr 01 2004 08:11:20
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tihuovin
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Posted - Apr 03 2004 :  05:22:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This "tuning" means that the flywheel surface will be honed, but not necessarily as flat. It will be honed so that the maximum amount of clutch pad surface's are touching the flywheel + pressure plate => the clutch will took more torque without slipping. I will do that just to be sure that I have maximum torque out of that clutch package.

I think the clutch plate is with springs, I have the single flywheel as well. When it arrives (next week?), I try to take some pictures for you to have a look. And I try to take some pictures before I send the flywheel + clutch package to be "tuned" and pictures when they arrives. To see the differencies.

I'll let you know my experiences with that clutch, when it has been installed. I'll do that during may.

BR,
Timo
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Roeboat
Starting Member

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21 Posts

Posted - Apr 13 2004 :  04:59:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How about lightening the flywheel? I'm in the midst of swapping the 745i engine into a 6 series. I will be converting from L-Jet to Motronic, so I have purchased the proper flywheel and bellhousing. How do they go about lightening a flywheel? What are the benefits? I gather I would still need to add a bypass regardless. What are the suggestions for a bypass valve? I saw that a VW turbodiesel was a good recommendation.

Roe
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Afshin-Switzerland
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Posted - Apr 13 2004 :  05:45:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Roe, flywheel lightening on a turbo engine is generally not a quite good idea .... actually turbo just needs some relatively heavy flywheel to keep in high RPM's while you're shifting gears ... on the other hand, a too quick reving engine doesn't leave enough time for turbo to spool up and make boost between gears changings ... so just be very carefull to find out / keep the "right" balance between a rev happier engine and one which's making boost and IS faster

As for blow-off / by-pass valve, your best bet is to combine the existing L-Jetronic by-pass system (easy fit on Motronics) with an after market blow-off which opens at over 1.0 bar, if you're heading for over 1.0 bar. When you stay around 0.8 to 1.0 bar max. the only OEM L-Jetronic by-pass option is the best

Regards, Afshin.
1982 745i (5-Speed)


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tihuovin
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Posted - Apr 14 2004 :  01:50:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Roe,

Afshin is right, be careful with the lightening. The benefit is, the engine revs up faster. The caveat is all what Afshin said + you will loose your torque at low rpm's.

If I will lighten my flywheel, I will took only few hundred's grams away, 500 gram or so. So I will took just a bit if I do it.

M102 valve + attached pipes/hoses is the best option. Just plug in is needed.In the picture, part number 2 (suction pipe) is from the M106 engine, part number 1 is from the M102. Part number 8 is the by-pass valve. The other end of the by-pass valve is connected to pipe going to throttle fly (see the part number 5, which is gasket between that pipe and by-pass valve), so also that pipe is different.

If M102 system is used, you'll need the following M102 parts: the "pipe 1", by-pass valve, "hose 11" and the pipe towards throttle fly.

VW turbodiesel by-pass valve, Saab turbo by-pass valve etc. can be used as well. But then you need to build the interconnection by yourself.

BR,
Timo
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turbo535im
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Posted - Apr 14 2004 :  07:20:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Any review on spec clutch quality? I know its not installed yet but how does the quality look?
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tihuovin
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Posted - Apr 15 2004 :  01:40:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not arrived yet, the guy called me on tuesday and said that it will be shipped from US on next week. It was due to spring "hassle" in the factory, so it will took another two weeks (takes about a week to arrive from US) before I have it in my hands. I'll took some digital photo's to share with you. So that you can also see how it looks like in real life.

BR,
Timo
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turbo535im
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Posted - Apr 15 2004 :  16:06:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I got a quote of $358us for stage 3. Does that sound right?
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